JSM Discussion

[Ixrec]

If you can't look up ki idioms in your dictionary, either it sucks or you don't know how to use it properly yet.

 気がする   【きがする】      (exp) to have a hunch
says JWPce, though I prefer "have a feeling"

In fact... I didn't even look in my dictionary lol.
And it was there...

Thanks

Excellent.

I guess you made the mistake of assuming dictionaries don't list idiomatic phrases.

[maitrenuage]

If you can't look up ki idioms in your dictionary, either it sucks or you don't know how to use it properly yet.

 気がする   【きがする】      (exp) to have a hunch
says JWPce, though I prefer "have a feeling"

In fact... I didn't even look in my dictionary lol.
And it was there...

Thanks

Excellent.

I guess you made the mistake of assuming dictionaries don't list idiomatic phrases.

Yeah
And I already knew what ki means so I didn't think about me precious dictionary.

... On the back cover it even said "Idioms, phrases, and common expressions help expand vocabulary and sentence-building skills".
"I'm so ashamed... I wis everyone else was dead..." (Bender, Futurama)

[Ixrec]

If you can't look up ki idioms in your dictionary, either it sucks or you don't know how to use it properly yet.

 気がする   【きがする】      (exp) to have a hunch
says JWPce, though I prefer "have a feeling"

In fact... I didn't even look in my dictionary lol.
And it was there...

Thanks

Excellent.

I guess you made the mistake of assuming dictionaries don't list idiomatic phrases.

Yeah
And I already knew what ki means so I didn't think about me precious dictionary.

... On the back cover it even said "Idioms, phrases, and common expressions help expand vocabulary and sentence-building skills".
"I'm so ashamed... I wis everyone else was dead..." (Bender, Futurama)

You do not know what ki truly means until at least a dozen of the ki idioms make sense to you.

But now you know~

[Ixrec]

One of my major goals during the break between MLU and MLA will be to do a complete revision of these documents, after which they should finally be comprehensive, accurate, and decently well-organized.  They will then be renamed "Ixrec's Guide to Japanese" or "IGJ v1" and this entire subform will be redone, though this discussion thread will remain.  Considering how little of the originals I plan to leave intact (I've already rewritten 3a and 3b from scratch), that should be quite appropriate.

My goal is to essentially write the more condensed and focused competitor to Tae Kim's guide.  This is definitely going to take more than one try, but it's worth a shot.  I'm also planning on having one of my pupils look over it for me, so I can virtually guarantee it'll be more comprehensible this time.

[KoiNoDensetsu]

One of my major goals during the break between MLU and MLA will be to do a complete revision of these documents, after which they should finally be comprehensive, accurate, and decently well-organized.  They will then be renamed "Ixrec's Guide to Japanese" or "IGJ v1" and this entire subform will be redone, though this discussion thread will remain.  Considering how little of the originals I plan to leave intact (I've already rewritten 3a and 3b from scratch), that should be quite appropriate.

My goal is to essentially write the more condensed and focused competitor to Tae Kim's guide.  This is definitely going to take more than one try, but it's worth a shot.  I'm also planning on having one of my pupils look over it for me, so I can virtually guarantee it'll be more comprehensible this time.

I recommend example sentences, ala Tae Kim.  That's my big beef with the current version of your guide. (plus the fact that some things are written a little too... "text book-like" for those who aren't major linguists)
I also recommend you making some comment about rikaichan in the new guide.  I remember you saying that online Japanese text wasn't a good resource; I find it to be quite the opposite with rikaichan.

But good luck.  Thanks for contributing so much to the community.

[Ixrec]

I'm definitely going to include way more examples, though definitely not the way Tae Kim does it. We'll see what you think.

As for textbook-like, if you're referring to document 3 and upward, I'm basically rewriting those from scratch, and the aforementioned pupil is not a huge fan of terminology like I am so that problem should also be largely mitigated.

On my lengthy to-do list for it is a long list of learning aids including rikai-chan to mention somewhere. Of course, to mention them meaningfully, I'd have to actually use them for a while, so no promises.

btw, online text can be decent for vocab, but it's pretty much shit for anything else due to lack of context, unless you're already good enough that the kind of source material you use is largely irrelevant. From what I remember of your past questions you have serious difficulty with grammar. Perhaps these things are related.

[KoiNoDensetsu]

On my lengthy to-do list for it is a long list of learning aids including rikai-chan to mention somewhere. Of course, to mention them meaningfully, I'd have to actually use them for a while, so no promises.

Just link to this page: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75958

btw, online text can be decent for vocab, but it's pretty much shit for anything else due to lack of context, unless you're already good enough that the kind of source material you use is largely irrelevant. From what I remember of your past questions you have serious difficulty with grammar. Perhaps these things are related.

Lol maybe partially. 
But when I get confused with grammar, it's because I can't find out how a certain particle/adverb/(etc.) is used in X way.  Or the grammar guide I am using just goes into waaaaaay too much detail and ends up making things confusing. (e.g. going into some long, drawn-out explanation using Linguistic Language instead of just saying "'Neko wa taberareru' means 'The cat was eaten.'")

[Ixrec]

On my lengthy to-do list for it is a long list of learning aids including rikai-chan to mention somewhere. Of course, to mention them meaningfully, I'd have to actually use them for a while, so no promises.

Just link to this page: http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75958

I had not heard of Itadaki. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

btw, online text can be decent for vocab, but it's pretty much shit for anything else due to lack of context, unless you're already good enough that the kind of source material you use is largely irrelevant. From what I remember of your past questions you have serious difficulty with grammar. Perhaps these things are related.

Lol maybe partially. 
But when I get confused with grammar, it's because I can't find out how a certain particle/adverb/(etc.) is used in X way.  Or the grammar guide I am using just goes into waaaaaay too much detail and ends up making things confusing. (e.g. going into some long, drawn-out explanation using Linguistic Language instead of just saying "'Neko wa taberareru' means 'The cat was eaten.'")

Well, that's my point exactly. Grammar is the hard part for any Westerner so that's what you really need to study (the laziness trap is thinking it's easier/more efficient to just learn vocab forever and the grammar will just come to you).

Though a bad grammar guide is certainly a factor.  Since you specifically mention particles, I might throw up my draft of the new basic particles section here once I'm done with it.

[KoiNoDensetsu]

My biggest problem in Japanese is being unable to understand "actual" sentences or expressions well.  Even after I understand a certain grammar point I had been confused about, sentences will still be confusing.  Or at least "not sound right".
For example, the subtitle of the VN Crescendo is "~～永遠だと思っていたあの頃～".  I take this as "I thought (it would be) eternity/eternal, that time."  I think I know what it means, but it sound... odd.  Like there should be a particle between "思っていた" and "あの".  It sounds kind of like saying "I knew I was happy that place."

I know Japanese has a different way of thinking, but it still sounds odd.  I get confused with long sentences since they sound like grammatically incorrect sentences to me. (even though they aren't)  Maybe something about this topic could be written in the guide?

[Ixrec]

My biggest problem in Japanese is being unable to understand "actual" sentences or expressions well.  Even after I understand a certain grammar point I had been confused about, sentences will still be confusing.  Or at least "not sound right".
For example, the subtitle of the VN Crescendo is "~～永遠だと思っていたあの頃～".  I take this as "I thought (it would be) eternity/eternal, that time."  I think I know what it means, but it sound... odd.  Like there should be a particle between "思っていた" and "あの".  It sounds kind of like saying "I knew I was happy that place."

I know Japanese has a different way of thinking, but it still sounds odd.  I get confused with long sentences since they sound like grammatically incorrect sentences to me. (even though they aren't)  Maybe something about this topic could be written in the guide?

"That time (when) I thought (it would be) eternity/eternal." is what you were after.

And yes this time around document 5 will be primarily about these subordinate clauses modifying noun, including the dozen or so nouns with a special purpose.

[KoiNoDensetsu]

Yeah, that's what I meant. (just using a literal translation lol)  It doesn't sound correct without a に at the end though.  I just have to stop and think "Huh, wait?  Why isn't it formed 'correctly' in this sentence?  Is it trying to say [X]?" when I come across stuff like that.
Bleh, hopefully I understand how to properly form expressions like this soon...

[Ixrec]

Yeah, that's what I meant. (just using a literal translation lol)  It doesn't sound correct without a に at the end though.  I just have to stop and think "Huh, wait?  Why isn't it formed 'correctly' in this sentence?  Is it trying to say [X]?" when I come across stuff like that.
Bleh, hopefully I understand how to properly form expressions like this soon...

That's not a literal translation, that's a mistranslation.

Also it'd sound like complete shit with a ni in there because: every Japanese clause ends with a verb no matter what (except of course for meaningless sentence ending particles), so when you see a verb not at the end it always means you have a subordinate clause in there being used to describe something else.

As for making this stuff sound intuitive, it's all about experience. In any language you have the option of inserting many more words into various places in the sentence, and your brain knows how to "store" all the information you've processed in such a way that once you've reached the end of the sentence everything lines up into a coherent thought. In Japanese word order is in many places the opposite of English and in others the same as English, not to mention that their system relies on particles and not word order, so you really do have to process them in a completely different way. Ideally you don't even try to convert anything to English at first.

[KoiNoDensetsu]

But wouldn't there have to be something that connects "omotteita" to "ano koro"?  To go back to my old comparison, it sounds like "I want to go movies." (rather than, "I want to go to the movies")

[Ixrec]

But wouldn't there have to be something that connects "omotteita" to "ano koro"?  To go back to my old comparison, it sounds like "I want to go movies." (rather than, "I want to go to the movies")

No. Simply assume the verb (and the clause it ends) is modifying what comes immediately after it. No simple particle is involved in this process, though many compound particles can change the role of said clause.

In your example sentence, it is "obvious" that the verb is modifying ano koro simply because it comes immediately after it. Also note that the way these subordinate clause modifications work almost always corresponds to a reflexive pronoun in English (e.g. how I used "when" up there).

[KoiNoDensetsu]

Hm, I will try to start thinking that way next time I read Japanese.  Thanks.  It's confusing since the sentence structure is so different. ("Eternity (I) thought - that time period." means "That time when I thought it would be eternity."...)